Never Say Never on the Kern River with Guy Jeans

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This week on the destination angler,

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As humans, you know, we have to have that like human contact, right. So the third day, the packers have left and then their third day, they're going to be coming in later in the afternoon and I haven't talked to anybody or anything for three days. And this poor backpacker coming in by himself, you know, I go Hey, how you doing, man? He thought I was crazy. Probably. I'm like, where are you going, man? What are you, what are you doing, man? You know? Because you're like, you want to, you know, you want that contact or just to talk to somebody you know? It's just Yeah.

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Yeah, no, I totally. He's looking at you going I think I just found Rumpelstiltskin. Like, who is this guy, man, chill out.

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Welcome to the destination angler Podcast, the podcast for anglers who travel. And I'm your host Steve Haigh. We go right to the source the local guides and experts to build your knowledge of top fishing locations around North America. It's a big world out there now go and fishing.

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Anglers welcome back to another episode of the destination angler

Coming up on the destination angler we're headed to Boise Idaho in the wild and scenic a ye river and then to Cuba. That's right Cuba, the check out the amazing bonefishing tarpan and permit fishing which is kind of like stepping back in time from what I hear. And be sure to backcast to catch the last episode of the destination Angler on the main north woods with expert guide Nate tower. Encompassing over three and a half million acres. These unspoiled waters are home to some of the best brook trout fishing in the world. For the venturing angler. Hey, remember to hit that subscribe button to catch all the destination Angular episodes coming your way. And if you'd like to show please tell a buddy  

And today our destination is the Kern River in the southern Sierras and our guest is guy jeans owner of the Kern River fly shop Kernville California. Emerging from the shadow of Mount Whitney and Sequoia National Forest. The Kern River flows over 165 miles through some of the most beautiful country in California and is home to three native species the golden trout the Kern River rainbow and the little Kern golden trout. Hey, if you're looking for seclusion, this is where you go the top 50 Miles our roadless wilderness guy grew up as a surfer kid in Ventura playing music and washing windows and guiding part time on the curb and while sleeping in his truck. After selling his window washing business, he started his fly shop and the rest is history. In addition to being a certified casting instructor, he writes fly fishing articles teach his surf fishing classes along the California coastline. He's a flight designer for solid to fly company and a musician in a ska band, and even hosts his own podcast called The guy jeans podcast. And he's one heck of a nice guy I must say. So today we break down the north south and tail water sections or the current along with tales of carp fishing top flies and seasons and some really entertaining stories. So let's dive in.

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Hey, guy, welcome to the show.

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Hey, how's it going? Man, it's going good. Good to hear your voice How you been? been really good. We're getting lots of rain out here in California. That's for sure. Man, what's up with California this year? It has been dry for how many years? And now what's your snowpack? Our snowpack is like we're pushing like 300% of normal which is unbelievable. The lakes in California on reservoirs are all full already. And we're and we're we haven't even had the snowmelt yet so that's pretty incredible. Yeah, that'll be the next thing all over the news. All that water coming down from the weather starts to melt. I can't imagine yeah, I've never seen it before. You know, the 20 years that I've had my my fly shop and guide service. I've never seen it

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With this big of a snowpack ever and so it's some kind of record going on right now. It hasn't been this big of a snowpack since like the 1960s or something like that so it's pretty crazy yeah, well like how many feet of snow are in the high Carter's gotta be 20 or 30 feet are more oh my god I don't know if you if you've heard of like the mammoth area and Mammoth Lakes Area Sure, Sierra but like some of the lifts they can't even use because the snow is on top of the lift. Oh, it's over the top of the lift over the top of the lifts and buried some of the lodges I mean, it's unbelievable we're talking like 3035 feet of snow it's crazy. Oh really? That's it Yeah. Oh my gosh

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yeah, we get all the pictures are all over social media and people carving these tunnels to get back into their homes and it Yeah, just it's like surreal. So anyway, well needless to say you'll have a lot of water this year you won't be going dry in September. I don't think it was getting brutal there. Man. It was getting brutal. We've been in a serious drought all over California for many years. So it's like unbelievable, this much water and all the reservoirs in our lake Lake Isabella is filling up which is amazing. How about Yeah, yeah, my gosh. I've done a few shows with a two shows with a guide up there. Last one to do on the McCloud River. And you know, that's that Lake Shasta area and Lake Shasta look like a river. Like it didn't even look like a lake. It just looked like a little river. The bottom of this. You know, where the lake used to be? So I guess yeah, they're all filling up. Yeah, that's awesome. All right. I gotta ask you what the heck is a ska band?

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Well, I'm from Indiana. I don't know these things. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Man, I think for asking you know, ska band is a type of music. So I play in a ska band. I have a ska band and

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the way I always describe it is kind of like faster reggae. And that's a good way that the beats, the rhythms are on the offbeat. And we have a horn section. So

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we have a three piece horn section, trumpet, trombone and sax and then origin guitar and bass and drums and icing in it and the band called The stone flies, which is there you go Shameless, Shameless plug out there.

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But we play original music original songs we write for songwriters

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been doing it for 35 years, toured around all over the place with with my ska band and it's a it's a lot of fun, like dance music kind of stuff beat type music that if you've never heard it before, bands that are similar are like, I don't know if you've heard of no doubt with singers. Her name is Gwen Safai. She's a pretty famous gal. Yeah, that is on the voice or was on the voice. She was really influenced by Scott from California in Orange County area. So a lot of their music no doubt it's got that kind of undertone Scott kind of vibe going on. But there's all kinds of bands that are influenced by Scott even the police. The police from Yeah, from England, you know? Yeah, they're, they're kind of a have a kind of a reggae Scott undertone as well. So kind of, kind of similar to that stuff. Okay, what do you play an instrument? I play the keyboard and sing in the band, believe it or not, check. Yeah, go folks. Yeah, everything's on YouTube. You know, stone flies. Yeah. All right. Very good. You know, the other thing I want to ask you about so you've fished all over the place and you're in I mean, trout fishing gear, your main game I'm guessing because you're gonna fly shop in the middle of Trump country but you assume Yeah, bash and carp fishing and some other things, don't you? Yeah, I'm totally and you know, whatever. The Tucker's the drug they say you know I love all species on a flying doesn't matter. I'm really into trout Of course, you know, that's been my, my staple for many years. But I also guide for small mouth and large mouth bass in the lower Kern River. And I also guide along the California coast for surf species that Kobina serve per striped bass and that sort of thing. Nice. Nice in where do you go without giving away your honey holes? Like where do you go carp fishing. Oh, man carp fishing is

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is kind of a cool thing that happens on Lake Isabella. And so for those, those folks that don't know,

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I am located about an hour east of Bakersfield or three hours north of Los Angeles. Okay, and the Kern River, the North Fork of the Kern River flows on the west side of Mount Whitney, and it flows down about seven years.

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miles through the golden trout wilderness is already paid to Sequoia National Park into the golden trout wilderness into the Sequoia National Forest. And then it flows down to my shop, which is right by Lake Isabella. And the river flows into Lake Isabella. That's the North Fork. And then we have the South Fork, which comes in on the other side of Lake Isabella. So there's two water sources that come in to Lake Isabella. What happens every year what's so cool is they start filling up the lake, usually this time of year, and it fills up these areas that are recall the flat is another flat and they're about

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a foot to two feet deep. And you can wade for many, many yards out into these flats and fly fish for cart. And it is hooked and it's just full of carbs. It's clear water. It's

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super technical. It's a lot of fun. In fact, we we even have a cart fly fishing tournament, which is something that all the car people come out of the closet to fish. Yeah, no kidding. It's a lot of fun. We even have carp on dry flies during that time. And we're going to be included in this this circuit called carp comp.

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This year where there's another lake down in Southern California towards San Diego that's going to be included in the carp competition called Lake Hinshaw. With Yeah, which is which is called Lake Hinshaw, which has grasshoppers on top water in these car companies on the surface. So they're going to do that one, then they're gonna do Lake Isabella, and then we're going to Phoenix. And we're going to be working with EG fly shop out of Phoenix. So it'll be like a little three destination area that we're going to go and have this cart competition, kind of like like a bass competition. That's gonna be all carp. So we're looking forward to doing that. That's cool. Yeah, at some point, I want to do a carp show. I just haven't really figured out what that's going to look like yet. But folks, don't judge the channel yet. I know you're trout fishermen out there for the most part, but let's we're going to talk carp fishing for just a minute. Guy. What's, what's the secret to catching carp? It sounds like they're really difficult fish. Like you say they're kind of spooky and technical. What's the secret? Yeah, you know, so there's so many different things that carp do, and you kind of have to watch what they're doing. Sometimes they feed on the surface, sometimes they're cruising underneath the water, and you can see him moving a little bit, sometimes they're tailing whether they've got their tails up and their heads buried in the mud. And sometimes, you know, they don't eat. And so trying to figure out, you know, what they're doing presentation, that sort of thing. You know, you have to use all your child's good child skills to be able to catch a car up on a fly and, and so you have these fish that are

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super spooky if you move in the wrong direction, or they see you that would blow up we call it the blow up and create this huge mud explosion. And that usually signals about the other 40 or 50 fish to explode as well.

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So you're pretty much done fishing for Yeah, pretty much done fishing for those.

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And you have to be stealthy, you have to be you have to be able to be stealthy, make a good cast, you have to present the fly in the way that they want to they want it on you have to have the right tackle. All that stuff comes into play be able to fight

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pretty good sized fish, because they fight pretty good. All that stuff comes into play when when fishing for carp and targeting carp and, you know, the flies that we use, we're developing flies and we have been for years

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in these different fisheries where they don't make too big of a splash but they'll think they'll ride with their hook up

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and look like a worm stuff like that. Sometimes they are feeding on the surface for ants and grasshoppers and beetles.

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And so we'll we'll target them when they're on the surface.

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It's a it's a super fun game and more and more people are starting to get into it which is super fun. And we have them everywhere. That's the other cool things. Yeah, they are everywhere they Yeah, and it's super fun and you don't have to travel super far. It could be in your local pond or their local bourbon Lake and it's a lot of fun. Yeah, there are certain kinds of carp that are readily take a fly in certain kinds of wound is that correct?

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Yeah, so um, you know, some different carp will come up and and look at your fly and say Nope,

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not gonna work. You know?

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Yeah, they're definitely picky at times. And, you know, sometimes you'll see him, you know, for us trout fishermen, you know, seeing a splash out there you know, there's a bunch of commotion you know, you're waiting out in the lake, you see a bunch of splashing and stuff going on. Most of the time, those are carpet won't need to know their meeting or their spawning. And so you won't be able to catch them from you know, being trout folks, we will cast to that, you know, and be like, eating this, you know, so just knowing just knowing their characteristics and, and how they, how they work is a big part of the game, for sure. That's cool. It's a whole nother game. How about that? Yeah, super fun. Yeah. Well, good. We are. Let's switch gears here and talk about some trout fishing here in California. So I found you because I found your podcast, I was looking for somebody to do a show with on the Kern River. And this guy has his own podcast. It's pretty cool. And awesome. You sound great. It's good podcast. Thank you. Yeah. You know, the cool thing about podcasts is my podcast, the guy jeans podcast, it's, it's, I'm meeting all these cool people and learning. You know, the whole thing about having a podcast too is you get to talk to all these people, but you get to learn, you know about their areas, or what they do and how they do this and, and create these friendships that last a lifetime. I'm just having a blast. I'm the same way I agree with you. It's a ton of fun. Your show? Yeah. 89. I think I mean, that's a lot of interviews now. And that's awesome. It's a lot of fun.

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So talk about this part of California because you're at the very end of this year is right and

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but what have you got down there fishing wise, obviously you got the Current River. Is there anything else down that way? Yeah, so I'll talk about the trout fishing if you want to just to kind of go in that route as well. What's interesting, and what's interesting about California for one is California has more native trout than any other state which is mind boggling if you think about it. But California, California is home to 10 native trout in different species of native trout. And what's really cool is that we in our area, we have three of them we have the golden trout. We have the Kern River rainbow which are the bigger ones. And then we have the little Kern golden trout and these are all different species in different areas of the of the kern area.

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And then if you travel around the state you have the Eagle Lake rainbow trout. You have the Warner lake trout, you have the Paiute cutthroat you know the coastal cutthroat, of course you have the steelhead, which are famous. You have the McCloud red band rainbow trout, famous and you have little hot and cutthroat and it's like so you have all these species of trout that you can go and target just in California which is amazing. And so what's happened here in California is the California Fish and Wildlife is put on this program. Where if you catch six of the native trout of California, they will give you a poster that has Joseph toma rallies prints of these fish which are gorgeous and they will actually have your name on it you know such and such has caught six of California's 10 native trout and it'll have those specific trout on it. And it's really popular to do it in our area because you can get three of them done in a couple of days, sometimes two or three days. And you got to you got to travel and work for him a little bit but people will come from all over the world actually to come catch the three in our area. The golden child is probably the most popular the most famous one. Our golden child is in the South Fork of the current drainage area.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. And, you know, so we have another four called the south with the current. And then we have these little tributary creeks that run into it. And, you know, the golden trout is considered by a lot of people the most beautiful trout in the world. It's golden yellow color and all that. The interesting thing about them is they don't get very big. Where we're at, you know, we use a one, wait two or three, wait to size rods. So if you like, okay, you know, kind of small stream, dry fly fishing. That's all it is to dry fly fishing. It's a it's an amazing experience to be able to come up and catch a golden trout in its native waters. You know, that's awesome. A lot of people catch gold and trout all over different areas. They took gold and trout from our area, and they put him in Montana. He took golden child and he put them in the wind range in Wyoming, I believe. Sure. So there are golden trout in other states, but the native golden trout come from the south fork with the current kind of neat. So if you're catching a golden trout anywhere, it came from the Kern River. Yeah, absolutely. And the other the other interesting thing is, I don't know if you've heard this too. But you know, the rainbow trout that you find all over

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the states or even in other countries and stuff that either come from the McCloud River or the Kern River, which is kind of interesting as well. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that. That's wonderful. Yeah. So lots to do lots of fish. And you've got some warm water species, small mouth, large mouth, we're just talking about carp. Right. Yeah. So the interesting thing that my my ultimate favorite, of course, I'm a bass by fishing geek. So I love to guide and target the, and float for the lower current small mouth and the lower current. So we have the North Fork coming down from Mount Whitney, we have the South Fork coming in from the golden trout when wilderness on the basically the east side coming into Lake Isabella. And then we have a tailwater, which is called the lower Kern, we do have trout down there that are stuck. And they hold over in that and get pretty big down there. But we do have small mouth, and large mouth bass and spotted bass down in the in the lower current. And the small mouth were put in the lower current in the 1940s. And they've had a self sustaining

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population down there since then. And so

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probably about 70 miles of water from basically Lake Isabella dam, all the way down to Bakersfield. It's full of a bath. And so you can do that as well. So you have you know, the cold water species and the warm water species that you can target. In our area. How many how many miles are river above Lake Isabella, for trout fishermen. So the North Fork is about 75 miles long, and

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that's the North Fork. And then the South Fork is about the same coming in on the other side. So in the within the lower currents, you know, 60 to 70 miles as well below that. So a lot of water. Yeah, take a lifetime to

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float fast. The neat thing about the upper current is that there's a section that goes up from my shop Turn River fly shop goes up to this bridge. It's roadside access. So it's 20 miles and roadside access. And then above that is 50 miles of wild trout water, where you have to either hiking or backpacking or horseback back in really cool. It's kind of a neat area where it doesn't get a lot of pressure. It keeps people from going in there because you got to work a little bit to get in there. But you're you're definitely rewarded when you when you go in there and catch those currently rainbows which can get up to 20 inches or so. That's really cool. And I'm when I'm looking at my trout routes after one of my sponsors, and you can just jump on here and see what exactly what you're talking about the road ends. And then yeah, it's just all public. All the way up, isn't it from there? Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, there's so many areas if you're a

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fly fisherman that likes them wild trout, you know, get away from all people, no self range, no, none of that kind of stuff. If you're that type of person. We'd like to backpack in for four or five days and be totally secluded there.

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In the upper kern wild trout section of the Golden trout wilderness is replaced in one go for sure. Is there a lot of good trail systems up there? Yeah, tons. Yeah, I got it, I want to tell you pretty funny stories. So I used to, I used to do trips in there where I'd stay in

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for sometimes, like 14 days, and I take groups and they're nice. by horseback, right? I'd go way back in their 20 miles by horseback, and then I would,

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I would stay in there for five days, and then the Packers would go out, and I'd stay in there by myself, you know, for a couple of days until the next group came in.

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And

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I don't know if you've ever Have you ever been in like, a place where you haven't had contact with another human being for three days? Like, no TV? No cell phone Dad, no contact with another human for like, three days? Is that ever? Have you ever experienced that? I don't do well alone for very long.

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Like a couple buddies with me, but we have been back in the back country for a couple of days and not seen anyone but I'm usually with somebody, but I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. So it's weird. You know, as humans, you know, we have to have that like human contact, right. So

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third, the third day in there. Packers have left and then their third day, they're going to be coming in later in the afternoon. And I haven't talked to anybody or anything for three days. And this poor backpackers coming in by himself, you know, hey,

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how you doing, man? I thought it was crazy. Probably. I'm like, where are you going, man? What do you what do you do?

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Because you're like, you want to you know, you want that contact? Or just to talk to somebody you know? It's just, yeah.

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Yeah, no, I totally. He's looking at you going. I think I just found Rumpelstiltskin.

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Who is this game and chill out

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and appeared down to his knees. Get a little tub of whiskey under his arm. You know? He's been Yeah.

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That's funny. That sounds really awesome though. Man. I kind of like dream about that kind of thing. I'll probably never do it. But that sounds really awesome. Yeah, if people want you they can. They can go on YouTube and look up Sierra fly fishing. And like some of the trailers that show the golden child wilderness, fly fishing in the golden trout witnesses look at your fly fishing. And I actually get a actually did a DVD. Back in the day. From in 2008. I did a DVD of fly fishing, called Sierra fly fishing, going to fly fishing the golden child wilderness. And it's still out there. You can get it on Amazon. There's still some out there. But for the most part they've sold out but people are are still selling them on there. So people want to see a really cool DVD.

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And get the experience get that fear of fly fishing in Volume Two, for sure. That's cool.

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Well Wait, give us just, you know, do your best to tell us what does it look like up there? I mean, I imagine it's gorgeous. You're at the base of Mount Whitney, so to speak. I mean, your tree line sometimes I'm assuming What's it look like up there? Yeah, so it it has a pretty fast gradient. You know, it's a super popular whitewater destination. It's a very world famous whitewater destination when the water comes up. The rapids are amazing but it's a freestone stream.

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And it starts up you know, 910 1000 feet or higher and then

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By the time it gets down to where I'm at in the Kernville, California area, we're roughly about 2000 feet.

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And so in that, you know,

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65 miles or so goes from that gradient down, you know, pretty, pretty steep. But there's, there's flat areas and meadow type looking areas, but it's a gotten pocket water got riffled big giant pools.

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It's beautiful man, it's a beautiful crystal clear water. It's what we that's what US buying or his dream about. That's a good way to put it. That's awesome. Compared to other streams,

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you know, a good increase downstream, like the Big Thompson in Colorado is very similar, any of those kind of Freestone streams that are uncontrolled, and not below a dam or anything like that, that's, that's kind of the vibe that you experience. From a crowded standpoint. How's it looking? Does it get super crowded? Well, so what's neat about it is, you know, from Mount Whitney down is to Sequoia National Park. And so you've got, I don't know, maybe 20 miles in the park there that is like, there's no one. Then it goes into the golden trout wilderness, the river flows into the golden trout wilderness. And that is there's another 20 miles. And so you won't see anybody in there, either. Pretty secluded. And then I'll in the roadsides, the roadside section, which is called the 20 mile section from basically Kernville my fly shop and remember, fly shop up 20 upstream 20 Miles is roadside. And that's where you will see most of the people just fishing on roadside there. Because easy access. It's all free. There is no it's all public access the whole entire rivers public access, there is no fee or private water or anything like that. It's all private. It's all public. And that's awesome. Yeah, that is awesome. How do the north and the south forks? Are they pretty similar or do they fish differently? So the South Fork is kind of more like a has like kind of a Spring Creek type of vibe. But it also has that Freestone kind of vibe too as well. So there's a huge Meadows where it just meanders through the giant meadows and then we're talking like 10 miles of meadow or just meanders through so if you'd like that kind of you know a little bit rivers about this alforque The currents probably about 15 feet or 20 feet wide at the most and

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meanders real flow through the through a lot of different Meadows. And then it'll drop off through some cascading riffles and runs and then it'll drop into another meadow. It's like that kind of a vibe that goes on there. It's that's the golden trout. And that is you know, all all dry fly dry fly with a dropper, you know, a rubber legged stimulator size 10 or 12, which is super fun, you know, for, for us guy getting into our 50s You know, having those bigger flies to be able to put the tippet through the

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kind of nice, you know.

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Yeah, and so on those those places, the flies are typically a little bit bigger that we use up on on the South Fork. Those Those fish like the grasshoppers and stuff in the summertime, and that's what we're usually up. There's summertime in the fall. Okay. This year since we have a 300% snowpack. I don't think we'll be able to get up there until August in the South Fork. Wow. There's so much snow. But yeah, so up there. We also have brown trout. And so we have non native brown trout in the South Fork is occurring. And there's been a lot of controversy with that because the brown trout favorite food is golden trout. And so the brown trout in the South Fork that occur and love to eat the golden trout. So

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you'll see the brown trout are a little bit bigger than the golden trout in most cases.

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So you'll see, they'll be you know, sometimes you're just sitting there on the on the bank of the South Fork of the Kern and you look in the water, maybe you're eating your lunch or something and just sitting on the bank and you'll see a golden child sitting there

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feeding or whatever and all sudden a big brown trout will come out from an undercut and just inhale that gold and Trump seen that is that right? You've seen that happen, huh? Yeah. Wow, that's cool. Many times. You know that

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they created these barriers in the south worker, the current

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ones called the vapor barrier, once called the Templeton barrier, and these giant like dams that are supposed to keep the brown trout from migrating upstream. And for the most part, they've worked you know, they're not that brown trout migrate upstream into the golden trout habitat. But in some of the areas, you know, where the below those dams you will see tons of brown trout and there's a lot of golden trout too, and they're just kind of cohabitating but the brown trout are definitely dominating. And companies like Orvis and Cal trout and Trout Unlimited, have spent a bunch of money trying to eradicate the brown trout out of there with little success, unfortunately, really brown once introduced the brown trout, we'll we'll find a way I think. Yeah. Okay. And then the North Fork, is that a little more technical fishing smaller flies? What's that? Like? Yeah. So we do we go through the seasons there, you know, so I'll start January,

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January, February, we're typically using small flies, black fly larva, type flies, you know, horrible 20, twos.

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20, fours, you know, oh, my gosh, so are you and that's kind of what we have to use, you know, those kinds of things. Those kinds of flies and sizes. Then we get into March, and we started having this really cool hash called March Brown. And we started getting the mayfly March brown, a little bit bigger. And so we started getting a little bit bigger five, then April.

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May we have the salmon fly hatch. So we go from the tiniest slide to the biggest flies like pretty rapidly. And so for us the big stones largest salmon fly tight, dry flies on the surface because the fish are gorging themselves on the on the salmon fly hatch. And we have yellow sallies through the season. catalysts are starting to start going through the through the summer and then we have all the Terrestrials so the grasshoppers and beetles and ants. Then we have you know, through the fall, we still have, you know, the October caddis, which is awesome. We have other stone flies as well, and mayflies all through December. And you know, blooming olives are super popular as well. So you have all these different we have all these different hatches going on throughout the season.

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Throughout the different seasons for sure. Pretty amazing fishery. The lower current below they

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were more efficient for the bath down there were using, you know, bait fish style patterns, top water poppers like frogs, always use pollywog style patterns for all those fish down there, which are pretty good inside to down there. Okay, and show you is a fly desire. And tell me a little bit about some of the flies that you've come up with assuming some of these are specific for your areas. All right. Yeah, so we have found that salmon or trout, salmon, steelhead, you know, they, they like the colors.

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You know, chartreuse and pinks, and reds. And, you know, over the years in our river, we've discovered that those colors are like super important whether whether we fish, you know, the natural colors, you know, like a stone fly colors, and yellow sallies, stone flying ants and stuff like that. Well, we'll also put on a tractor style pattern, same time, so we'll have, you know, a natural lawn, and then we'll put on a tractor below that or above it off a tag or underneath an indicator, that sort of thing. Or we'll put a dropper underneath the driveway and we'll have some kind of a tractor underneath there. And the fish, the kind of rainbows especially love shiny, bright.

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Archers red, pink is a big one for us. They love the color, anything with a little bit of pink in it. So we've come up with different patterns. One of the patterns that I've come up with is called the colonel merger and it's basically like a hairs year, but we'll put for the wind casing, different color, green casings, you know, whether it's pink,

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or red, instead of the natural weed casing that we have, you know, so it's very similar to that. Yeah. And I'll definitely send pictures so people can see that. Yeah, please do. Yeah. So we have

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some patterns that some of the other guy

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In the shop I have come up with some friends of mine called the Bueller brothers that guide for me. They've come up with some great patterns. One's called the slim Shane. And it's kind of like

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just like a like a describe as real slim and it's shiny. And but it's got like tinsel wrapped around it really simple, super simple fly and they may put a little bit of pink wrapped around the, by the head there and the color was a streamer, or is it a NIF? Kind of like a Frenchie? Kind of a little bit? Okay. All right. So it's an F All right. Yeah, tied with the kind of a jig style hook and and it bounces on the bottom and it's it's a super popular one. People love that. And then we have another one called a tungsten yellow Sally. That is probably our number one fly. It's a golden stone flying. You know, we have golden stone flies and brown stone flies and swallows Blackstone flies in our river in the North Fork. Stone flag type patterns are super popular

41:07

on our rivers, so you'll see a lot of in my fly shop and you walk in like oh my god.

41:14

Really? The bins are just all stones like yes, you know, so you'll see a lot of people using those on on the river. Yeah, nice. What style of fishing? Are you guys doing up there anything in particular? Or does kind of all styles work? Or what works? Well, yeah, you know, we we, at the fly shop, we teach all kinds of different styles and you know, from European nymphing, to dry droppers to fishing, anything indicator to streamer, fly fishing, but they all work just depends on you know, what the angler would like to do for that day or they have a particular style that they like

41:54

on the on the current there's great water to do the check making style and European style making is reclaimed water for that. Some people like to fish that way we'll shortline and and workup through the pockets and the pools. Sure, some people like to fish the big dry fly like a big red Fuzzy Wuzzy say six or eight on the surface and then drop down a couple of nymphs below that. So that's super popular and fish upstream doing that. And then some people will turn around and fish streamers walk downstream and cast down and across and try to get a fish on the swing kind of almost like steelhead swing, very similar to that. So that's a super popular way to fish the current as well. Okay, it's like how wide is the current? I'm sure it varies, but give me a sense from from that waterway up in the high country on down to your shop like what's, what's the CFS? How wide is it? Okay, so we just had an a huge event just happened. The river usually when we're fishing is between 300 and 1000. CFS. And you know, I was just I was talking about how

43:06

much rain snow we've been getting. Yes. And we just had an event where the river got up to 46,000 CFS, holy smokes, flooded the town. Unbelievable. Took out, took out trailers and stuff and it was crazy. I think I saw you guys on the weather my Weather Channel app, they were showing the ground river flooding your little town lievable unbelievable man just just annihilated the camp stuff in town. They're all cleaning up right now, you know, getting ready for the season, but it was unbelievable. And what happened was, you know, we had this snow come in and lower elevations, you know, three 4000 feet. And then we had this warm rain come and land on that snow all the way up to Mount Whitney. And just no fit at all. And it all just came down. And that's what happened.

44:02

I hope everything's okay. But to kind of answer your question, you know, the normal CFS is between three and 1000 that we like to fish the upper current. And to kind of give you an idea of that that's probably you know, I don't know 30 To 40 feet across.

44:21

Sometimes wider. Sometimes, you know. That's great. sighs Yeah, so that's, that's the North

44:29

super wadeable guy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. People love the way that we even floated it certain times of the year and

44:40

in pontoons to man pontoons will slow down. But it has to be above 500 do that. But it's

44:51

super wavetable when water gets down into 500 300 to 500. CFS, which is probably going to be in the August, September.

45:00

But maybe I don't even know. It's because we have a record year, I'm not sure it would go under 1000 This year,

45:08

which will be actually really cool for the fishery. Yeah. What happens with with the river, you know, all these, these people are like, Oh my God, what's gonna happen to the fish and all this kind of stuff and the fish have been going through this for 1000s and 1000s of years and it just they just survived, right?

45:29

The other interesting thing is once we have these big floods, and it just, it's like a big cleanup, you know, like cleans out of river and moves the rocks around to put sediment on the on the banks, new plants, new trees, new bugs, more bugs, it just gets really makes the river system healthy, in my opinion. We just we just have to go through it right now. We're just kind of scours everything and just kind of, oh my gosh, look at all these trees. But you know, give it a few months and all plants are coming back and it's just burst into this really neat place. That with 46,000 CFS man that's gonna look like a new river to all your guys when they go, you know, you're gonna learn you're

46:15

gonna learn it all over again. You know, so? Well, you know, I wanted to ask you about you starting this fly shop. So am I right? Like, there was no fly shop up in this area until you came along? Is that right? That's right. Oh my gosh, you know, I was we were talking about my ska band, I was a musician

46:36

for about 15 years through the 90s there.

46:40

My band was kind of like, you know, coming to an end. And so I mean, I was kind of I was still playing and stuff, but we just kind of had kind of peaked out and my music career was kind of coming to a halt. And so I was like, Okay, now. Now what am I going to do?

46:57

And so my other love course. My other love was fly fishing. But the funny story is man, I I

47:06

was also while I was playing music, I was a sales rep for a company called Wrigley.

47:14

Wrigley Wrigley Wrigley gum, you know, like the gum. Okay, there Yeah, yeah, Wrigley gum. And so I, it was cool. It's kind of like a part time job. But I was a sales rep. And I wish I had all the liquor stores and all the grocery stores in the Ventura Santa Barbara Area in California.

47:33

And one day, I pulled up to

47:35

a Vons that we have out here, a big grocery store and I parked a car. And I mean, I'm kind of like a suit and tie, you know, and I'm getting ready to make a call and go talk to the managers you know, in the, in the grocery store. And these two, these two homeless guys come up, and they're like,

47:55

Hey, man will wash your windows on your car? Or for seven bucks.

48:01

Okay, cool, man. So I gave him seven bucks. And I

48:06

I went into the grocery store. And I looked out the grocery store window, and I see him run off, you know, like, they didn't clean my windows on my car. Yeah, and like,

48:18

ice, you know, so I was all mad and whatnot. And then I got to think and you know, like, Wow, these guys are making seven bucks per car. That's pretty good, man. You know, this is like, you know, 30 years ago, something. And I'm like, wow, those guys are made so funny that they did like, buy cars now. It's like 35 bucks now. Hey, man, that's more than I make, you know.

48:44

So

48:45

I'm like, dang. So

48:48

I started thinking about it. And I was like, wow, so washing windows, man. So long story short, I started a window washing company.

48:57

From that experience, you got a business out of it. How about that? I did. Yeah. So these guys they could totally inspired me to think about it. Okay, so what I did was, and I promised I'm gonna lead into the flower shop here in a second. So

49:14

what I did was I said to myself, Okay, so if I make a flyer,

49:20

and I go around to the beach community, and I hand out a flyer to every single house, and I walk around for eight hours, and I hand out a flyer to each house and I take eight hours to do it, I get one job out of that after work.

49:37

And so I did that I made some flyers and I went around the houses and I ended up getting like five

49:44

houses out of it, you know, schedule and stuff. I didn't know how to wash windows.

49:49

And I'm like, Oh God, figure out how to do this, you know, minor anyways.

49:55

So I did, I figured out how to wash windows and I watched

50:00

Some videos. And I ended up having this window washing business for about seven, eight years. And I ended up

50:10

I ended up having a crew and I ended up having all these houses and like restaurants and all these things all over the Ventura, Santa Barbara areas doing construction, cleanup and all these things right?

50:23

In one day, that was up on top of building and I'm washing a window and I'm like thinking to myself, just what I just really what I want to do with my life, you know, not that, not that washing windows is that's a great job as always work and this and that. But I wanted to I needed more, I guess, even though I created this really, it's a business, it's still going today.

50:46

I ended up running into a guy who he wanted to buy the business. And so I said, Okay, so I ended up selling the business, which gave me enough capital to

51:01

eventually buy a buy product from my fly shop. So I'm going to fast forward to my fly shop. So in the meantime, I was playing jazz gigs, I was playing piano with a saxophone player.

51:15

And then I was driving up to the kern I had, I wasn't living up there at the time. And I was sleeping in the back of my truck. And I was guiding, you know, one or two days on the weekend sleeping in the back of my truck, and I drive back to Ventura and do my jazz piano gigs with a saxophone player and I drive up there and I kept going back and forth. And one day, I was driving back through Kernville. And I saw a for rent sign on this on this building, like I got out of my truck. And I went up and looked through the window. And it was this old

51:54

thrift store that had been there for like 30 years, but apparently the person who owned the thrift store, they had passed away. And so now the owners were going to be renting it out and I looked in the winter. This would be a cool place to have a fly shop. That just occurred you just like right there. I need to fly shop. Yeah, right here. Yeah. And so I called the phone number. And the people are like, Oh, fly shop, what is what is that? You know? Yes, we were? Yeah, they there was no fly shop and Kernville there was nothing. And so eventually I said, Hey, would you mind if I came over your half, I'm going to show you what fly fishing is I'm gonna show you. So I brought over my files of bugs, you know, stone flies and Bibles. And in this like presentation to these people that own the building, and I said, this is what I want to do and blah, blah, blah now okay, well, we'll think about it. But about a week later, they called me and said that they were going to give that that space to me. And so I'm like, awesome. So it took me about six months or so to get everything organized. And I had I just sold that building. And I just had sold the business. Yeah, so I had a cap at capital to buy some, you know, waiter

53:10

you know, just bear inventory. Yeah. And so I remember, you know, opening up and I couldn't believe I had I had a really good day. My first day was awesome. And that was

53:28

someone on 21 years ago. So you had your customers on your first day. I mean, you open your doors and people walked in. Yeah. Oh, it was awesome. And then and then I was I was guiding as well so I was doing you know

53:43

guiding and I was working the shop and all that kind of stuff. So it was a lot of first and then I just kind of kept building it up and building up and and now we've got a bunch of guides working at the shop and

53:58

fly fishing school and and

54:02

congratulations. Yeah credit created a cool community started a fly fishing club called the southern Sierra fly fishers up there and it's done.

54:13

You know, it's the club's got the Mackenzie Cup, which is like a really kind of high honor for five Xing clubs

54:20

in the nation. So they've done really well and so it's become this really cool. So efficient community. That's awesome. Alright, so the long story. No, I love it. That's that's a good that's a great story that that inspires some people who were in a job they're not thrilled about and, you know, there's, there's a path maybe to something better, you know? No, I talked about I talked about that on my podcast and talk to a lot of people that

54:47

you know, if you're passionate about whatever you do, and you will be successful and that's just just the way it is you know, if you love what you do, and focus on it, and don't listen

55:00

mean, buddy. I mean, I had everybody telling me that I wasn't gonna succeed. And I just didn't listen, I just kept moving forward and say, you know, obstacle, I figure it out, you know? Wow, that's fantastic. I mean, you're into a lot of different things, right? I mean, you start this fly shop, he designed flies, you're in a band. You teach surf fishing, right? You've got your podcast, you're winning awards. I mean, like, you're killing it. Thanks. Yeah, where did this inspiration in his passion come from? Is that kind of like, where your parents are super passionate people are like, where did that come from? I don't know, man. You know, my parents were teachers, were elementary school teachers for 40 years, most of them taught for years. And, you know, I don't know, I just had, I just have that. I'm still still trying to do other things. I love creating something out of nothing. So I'm like, I like doing that kind of stuff. Whether it's business or conservation, or whatever, whatever it is, it's just inspires me to do other things and meet other people and learn, basically, yeah, that's great. So what was your life childhood, like growing up in Ventura, you know, with to school teacher, parents.

56:25

So

56:27

my, my life

56:30

as a, as a kid growing up in winter as a surfer kid. And so my, you know, just, I guess it depends on where you grow up, you know, you could be a

56:41

snowboarder kid, or whatever it is, you know, wherever you grow up. And I was, I was immersed in, in the surfing world, at a young age, about 11 years old. And, and started doing that at a young age and got into competition, surfing and sponsorships and, and all that stuff. at a very early age. And I was always super competitive.

57:07

Whether

57:09

whether it's a business or whatever it is, I, I like to try to do better always. And so surfing was a good one for me, because the you have to get an individual, you don't have to rely on anybody else to win the waves and, and trying to figure things out, you know? Yeah, I was listening to your video, one of your videos on your, on your website. And I thought I was kind of curious, like, about, like, the culture that you're trying to build there. In Kernville, you know, around fly fishing, because I love what you said, you said, there are no rules and fly fishing. But there might be a better way. And if you're talking about how you teach, but I feel like a lot of people feel like there are a lot of rules in fly fishing, you know, like, Oh, you got to do it this way. Or, you know, something bad's gonna happen. What do you think about that? Oh, great question. I love it. So check this out, man. So I come from the,

58:05

the life of no rules. And there's always a better way. And so I used to.

58:12

I used to do these hosted trips to Montana. And I hosted these different lodges and stuff. One of the things I tell my guys is never say never, ever, never say never, ever. If somebody wants to try something, say Absolutely, let's do it, right. So we're up in Montana, I've got this. I've got 10 people up in Montana. And, you know, there's different guides there, I'm actually guiding too. So I'm rolling a drift boat, but there's four other boats or whatever. And one of the guides, is guiding the river for a long time. And

58:53

it was kind of surprising to me that he said what he did, but he said to me, I showed him my my box of fly, and all these different flies that we use and stuff and different resolve those will never work here. That'll never work here. That'll never work here. That'll never work here. He kept saying to me about all these different tribes. And I'm like, really?

59:13

And so as I'm going down the river, and I'm tying different flies on for my clients and customers and I'm saying let's try things, you know, it's training the flies and see what happens, you know, so sure enough foam and Oh, really, the other guide isn't catching anything. And what are you guys using? I'm using those slides you said it wouldn't work something different. Yeah. So that's one of the things is like another one another time I was guiding this guy from New Zealand. And

59:45

he, you know, we're fishing streamers and stuff. He's like, Hey, mate, you want to mind if I try one of my slides? And I'm like, sure. What do you got? He whips out his boxing's got these slides are called booby flies.

59:58

fly fisherman magazine, but they're like

1:00:00

Not flies with these big giant beads on both sides of the eye of the hook, right? So they look like giant eyes, they call them booty flag. And then so it looks like a woolly bugger with these giant eyes on the front, right? And they call them booby flies. And, and I look in my mind, you know, I'm like, Oh, my God, these things are sitting there. I'm like, I don't know about these things. You know, that's what I'm thinking I might, and we put it on their phone.

1:00:28

First cast, you know. And so that's my lessons, like you never say never, never say never, you know, always be willing to, as a guy, always be willing to try other people's wives and things out, you know, I mean, just you think sometimes you're fishing, like you're in Montana, and you efficient some stream that fish are seeing 1000 flies a week, a day, maybe on some of those, you know, them, but some of them and, and if you throw something I was just still had fishing yesterday, up in Michigan, and this guy was super, you know, particularly about these flies we're using. And he's like, we design our own flies, and they just look different than anything else that these other fishermen are thrown at them. And sometimes, you know, a steel has seen 1000 flies a day, and some of these rivers and just throw some different. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes that's, that's the key. Absolutely. You know, and that's, that's anything about fly fishing, and I say there's no rules, you know, I got into competition fly fishing there for a little bit. And,

1:01:31

you know, this was a fly fishing tournaments and stuff. And, you know, the amount of different fly that some of the competitors have, and you can learn from and just see in the development of some of the flies, and

1:01:45

is unbelievable, you know, just some of the slides that are coming out nowadays is

1:01:53

incredible, like, how many 1000s of patterns are out there that nobody knows about, except for the one guy who's tying them and not telling anybody about them? And there's 1000s I'm sure, exactly, yeah. They don't want to tell anybody, you know, because they got an edge with this fly, you know?

1:02:11

Right. And they probably do. You know, it was cool, like in some of the competition stuff that I did. You know, afterwards, after we got done with our, our heat or session, whatever. A lot of the guys would actually like, talk about the fly that they were using, you know, like, Oh, this is what I was using that way you were using that I think it would be like something, you'd be like, ah, that's awesome, man. And we're doing this and they'd be like, ah, that's cool. You would you would share these flies and knowledge, the amount of knowledge that that when fly fishing, competitors get together. And the amount of knowledge that comes together in one place is unbelievable. Yeah, they come from North Carolina. We come from California, and they come from Utah. They come from Montana, they come from wherever. Yeah, all these people come with all these different techniques. And it's pretty cool. I love it. Do you have like a flight timetable in your shop guys can just sit down and just tie flies and shoot the ball.

1:03:14

We do next door. So I have a fly fishing rule room basically next door to my job. So we do a lot of light tying over there. And there's a there's a refrigerator with beverages in that. So there's a lot of that that goes on to

1:03:30

Okay, guys. Yeah. Well, there's a fly shop at the base of rock Rick in Montana. It's called the mercantile. And you walk in there and for someone went in there was years ago, and there was just a big round table, right in the middle of the fly shop is piled high with flight, like completely unorganized. You know, just everything just pile, like, whatever you need is somewhere buried in the middle of that round table. You know, you can tell you anything. Anybody could just sit down and tie flies. And I thought, Man, I just love to hang out here and just talk to these people and watch them and see what they're tying and talk to them about, you know, fishing and Time flies. And like you said, I mean, there's just so much knowledge that comes together. You know, particularly like if you're at a place like the Kern River or rock, Rick and Montana, you know? Yeah. All right, I was gonna ask you just a little bit more about the Kern River. I'm curious, how selective are these fish? Like, are you having to go all the way down to you know, five and 6x sometimes with these fissures Tell me about that.

1:04:34

Sometimes, you know, sometimes when they're focused on the surface stuff, and some of the mergers, just kind of subsurface, they're pretty selective in different times of the year when they're focused on the hatches and stuff like that.

1:04:49

But most of the time, you can drift or as long as you get a good drift. And you have something that looks similar to what's going on underneath the water.

1:05:00

Um, you'll get hit, you know, too difficult. I always tell people to like,

1:05:06

you can catch fish on the Kern River, you can catch fish anywhere. Because it can be, it can be technical, and it can be challenging and difficult. And there's a lot of people to come into my shop, you know, after a day's fishing, and I caught I only got like three fish, you know, and then, you know, somebody else will come in and do it, I tore it up to the fish, you know? And you're like, you know, so it just, it just depends on the skill level as well. And what do you notice in about the top anglers, and we talked a little bit about this earlier, but like, what do you think the top anglers are doing that maybe like the guy that like got three wasn't, you know, with, with our area, the peppercorns, just time on the water, you know, a lot of people will go to these other strings, and, you know, there's lots of fish, it's a matter of just getting the right fly and just, you know, getting a good grip with the current it's, it's

1:06:07

time on the water learning. I always tell people, their first time up is you know, get a guy, you know, go with a guy for a half a day and just kind of see what what's going on, you know, see the flies they're using see what, what techniques they're using, and it just makes all the difference in the world. And some people won't, won't do that, and they get frustrated. Right now they're instead of getting dialed in, in a day or half a day, they they got to spend three or four days to learn. Yeah, they probably wouldn't even learn what they what that guy could teach him and a half a day probably wouldn't get close, but they might get a little bit better. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let me ask you this, just as we're kind of closing down here, what what is like the one thing that you want people to know about this fishery?

1:06:53

Well, I think, you know, there's a variety, if you come up to Kernville, and you're gonna probably have people come to visit, they're going to either fly into Los Angeles or or Bakersfield, and from Bakersfield, it's an hour drive from Los Angeles about a three hour drive. But you're gonna find that the fishery is diverse. You've got three different native trout. But you've also got brown trout in systems. Then you've got all the you've got the Lake Isabella, which is a variety of trout, warm water species as well. And then you have the lower curve, which is a whole nother fishery in itself, plus all the tributaries that come into both forks are the term, you know, so there's hundreds of miles of small streams of cool. People can imagine that we have the Giant Sequoias where we're at. So if you can imagine the biggest trees in the world, and, and a stream that's nearby. That's kind of what it's like, you know, big time dreams. Yeah, with the giant sequoia is

1:08:03

not too far away. So I could be fishing the Current River and looking at Giant Sequoias? Well, their streams around the giant sequoia is that they're up a little bit higher. Okay, say, you know, they're up in the they're up in the 8000 foot range. So they're abundant, this area called the Western divided highway. But yeah, you can definitely see the current from the Giants. Okay, you know, which is kind of a big, it's a big Canyon. This looks off and you can see it. But yeah, it's kind of like that. So it kind of gives you an idea of what the terrain looks like, you know, it's awesome. And guy I'm curious, you've spent a lot of years fly fishing and sounds like you hit it pretty hard. You're gonna fly shop and I'm sure fly fishing means a lot to you. And I'm kind of curious, like, what has fly fishing taught you too these years?

1:08:56

Great question. Thank you.

1:08:59

So fly fishing has taught me

1:09:04

all kinds of things. I've had

1:09:06

people that have fished their last days with me you know, as a guy David asked like, guy I've only got a few

1:09:16

few months to live but I want to fish with you one last time. Well, or you know, float me down the river one last time I want to catch the fish one last time or whatever is mishap that's happened a lot. So it's taught me that taught me empathy. It's, it's taught me

1:09:33

you know, slow down, slow down that goes nuts go so fast and enjoy every moment that you have, you know, with friends, you know, a lot of times when I go

1:09:45

fishing, I like to watch my friend fish and lap and she didn't catch a fish. You know, I love that aspect of it.

1:09:56

I've met some of my best friends through the fly shop.

1:10:00

Immediately when they walk into the pie shop, I'm like, okay, and they'd be friends with this guy. I know for sure. You just know. Yeah.

1:10:06

You just know it right off the bat, you know, so I've met some of the coolest people some of the most interesting people through fly fishing, and and it just keeps getting better I keep it keeps happening to me. You know, as I keep a keep going on with my,

1:10:25

my fishing career, I just keep meeting all these cool people. And, you know, like you, man, this podcast. Never never been on this podcast. So it's just, you know, that kind of stuff. You know? I love it. Yeah, no, it's it's It sure is. It's kind of a way of life. I mean, I think it's more than just something you kind of have fun with it. It gets in your blood. It's I think there's a chromosome. People like you and me and a lot of other people. Yeah, I have friends like what you're going fishing again. Yeah, what's wrong with that?

1:10:59

Took Wednesday off middle of the week, and people might come you're doing what going? I told myself, I you know, from from now from now on, I'm always going to I'm going to go to places I've never been before. You know,

1:11:15

can different fish different species that I've never fished for before? That's great. And yeah, and explore. I mean, why not? You know, last year I went to and went to shellac and went to the cod place called the X slash Lodge. Oh my god, where's that

1:11:34

guy Shellac is in Mexico kind of like almost believe.

1:11:39

This permit Bonefish?

1:11:43

Jack Ravel, although really, she's, you know, target and all that. And I had never done that before. So I did that last year. And that guy was awesome. So that kind of stuff. You know, that's, that's the kind of cool thing about fly fishing is you can go

1:11:58

do all these other cool

1:12:01

variances as well, you know? All right. I'll tell you what's on my bucket list is a GT a giant Ravalli. Yeah. Have you ever gone? Absolutely. Yeah. And I haven't done that one yet. No. Yeah. I mean, either. Amazing. All right. I had a guy sometimes I pull it pull listeners on my show. And I had a guy that I never know what they're gonna say. And I get it this guy from the UK who was on my Instagram and I just reached out and say you want to be on the show? And, you know, he gets on the show. And he's, you know, this thick British accent and it turns out this guy is fished all over the world. The Seychelles. Yeah, all over the Caribbean, you know, and he and he works in a Ford plant in London, right there make an F 150s. In London. I didn't know that.

1:12:45

And he said that catching a giant Valley is like, throwing your line out there in a in a semi truck hook in the back bumper of a semi truck. It's just this this dirt. You know, it's like a serious fish. So anyway, I thought I don't know if I'm going to the Seychelles to do that anytime soon. But, you know, that's on the bucket list. So we can dream right? Yeah, I'm with you on that. Yeah. So alright, food questions. I always end my show with this. So I want to know, your favorite restaurant for the hungry thirsty angler at the end of the day. That's question one. And the next question is what's your favorite short lunch to make your customers? Okay, cool. Great question. So, answer the first one is called the Current River Brewery.

1:13:31

River Brewery is kind of a cool story is very similar to mine where a guy had a dream of starting to brewery was brewing his beers in his garage and ended up

1:13:42

opening up a breweries beers were so good that he'd become world famous. Kern River Brewery

1:13:51

won all kinds of awards gold medals with the Great American Beer Fest all from he started out in his garage. So you guys come up, make sure to go to the Kern River Brewery. Sounds good. And there's all kinds of beers there that they brew. It's a small brewery and employs about 70 people I think but it distributes all over the place. And it's kind of a cool so we have we have a fly shop and a brewery and some hotels. Are you go in Kernville? Oh, that's very important. What else do you need? You got it all in a river? Yes. And then what was the second question? Yeah, sure. Lunch favorite Sure. Lunch? Oh,

1:14:34

yeah. So let's see. I've done quite a few of those. So like I'll do sometimes I'll cook chicken case of dishes. Sometimes I'll do brought worst. Sometimes they just do sandwiches on the shore.

1:14:53

But

1:14:55

it's all done you know with the nice tablecloth and

1:15:00

Thanks so yeah so that's part of the deal man is like trying to make a good lunch for for everybody you know some some people when I go on trips I don't I don't want to eat. Just keep fishing. I just want to fish. You want to fish and I'm like, well, we got to eat and we got to eat something. Yeah, I gotta break. Yeah some of my some of my favorite memories were fishing with my dad Montana. And you know, seeing him sitting there at this little this little fold out table you know a little fold out chairs a little table just like you're describing with a tablecloth and he's just loving life. You know, my dad was yeah, pretty he's pretty wound up guy. I mean, he was kind of a corporate guy, you know, and to see him relax, like that was just absolute. Just the joy just see him like chatting with the guide, you know, and just having a great time. It's those shorter lunches, man, you should stop. You should stop and just do that. You know, I don't know. I get you want to keep fishing, but it's another aspect of the trip or the experience to sit down and just sit and talk for a little bit. Have lunch. Have a meal? Oh, for sure. I don't know.

1:16:05

So anyway, well, guy, man. Thanks for being on the show. You did a great job. Thanks, man. That was that was blast. I really appreciate it. Sir. You bet. All right, so how can people get in touch with you or maybe book a trip? So Kern River fly shop.com is the is the website? My podcast is guy jeans. podcast.com Gotcha. If you want to listen to some stories, some more stories. Yeah, it's a good one. And then stones life music.com A few people want to check out my band. I've got a couple of videos that we've done actually one of the videos for the songs we shot in the fly shop. Oh, you did? Okay. Yeah, for the cinematography. For that is really good.

1:16:52

It's on the river. It's a concert that we do it in the shop. And then we we show the concert on the river too. So it's kind of a neat kind of people will be able to see what the river looks like for sure. Okay, and so yeah, there you have it. Oh, and then I've got

1:17:09

you know at Kern River five shop on Instagram and on Facebook. And folks thank you for listening and Guy wish you extraordinary success and all your adventures to follow and we'll be sure to post all that guys information on our destination angler show notes and pictures of his top flight picks on her Facebook and Instagram pages along with some really cool pictures at the series beautiful area. You can DM me or email me with comments and suggestions in sa fifty@gmail.com Maybe like to show please share with a buddy so always Our music is by a brother's found in an awesome little band out of Colorado. Hope you enjoy the show. We'll see you again soon.

Tight Lines everybody